0:01
Hello and welcome to Shipwrecks and Sea Dogs, tales of mishaps, misfortune, and misadventure.
I'm your host, Rich Napolitano.
I'm very honored to have with me today Eric J Dolan, the author of the book The Wreck of the Mentor, a true story of death, despair, and deliverance in the age of sail.
0:18
Eric, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today.
Oh, thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
The Wreck of the Mentor is a true story and really does meet the criteria of mishaps, misfortune and misadventure, sometimes all at the same time.
0:35
It's it's really an amazing true story, very compelling, also tragic, but it's really much more than just a shipwreck book.
A lot of times people say what is there to say about a shipwreck?
It it hit a rock or hit another ship and it sank.
0:50
OK, well as you and I both know and my listeners know, there's always more to it than that, and I really enjoyed reading your book.
But to introduce the story, could you give maybe, so to speak, a back cover synopsis of The Wreck of the Mentor?
Sure, The Mentor was a whale ship from New Bedford, MA, at a time when New Bedford was the leading whaling port in the United States.
1:16
On board the Mentor were 22 men led by Captain Edward Barnard.
They left New Bedford in May of 1831 or in actually July of 1831, sorry, July of 1831, and they were going to sail into the Atlantic Ocean looking for sperm whales and right whales and maybe even humpbacks.
1:40
They didn't have much luck there.
Barnard decided to go around the Cape of Good Hope into the Indian Ocean, continued looking for whales again, didn't have good luck.
And he finally decided on a bold urcourse of action, which is to go all the way to the Pacific Ocean, which was teeming with sperm whales, the most valuable whale of all.
2:01
So they left the Spice Islands and they were heading, they're heading for another island.
And Edward Barnard thought that they were about, you know, well into the open ocean, far away from any other islands.
But then midnight of May 21st of 1832, they suddenly crash into a reef off of the island of Kayangal, which is at the northernmost reaches of Palau and archipelago, about 340 islands located about 450 miles to the east of the Philippines.
2:40
Within a day, half of the men on the Mentor, eleven men are dead trying to escape from the wreck.
And then the next morning the remaining 11 men go to a small island.
And over the course of the next four years, the wreck is really just the very beginning of the story.
2:59
And not even the meat of the story, although it's quite dramatic, but over the next four years, there are a whole bunch of improbable and fascinating events that take place.
There are vicious attacks by the Palauans and Tobians on the American whalemen, their displays of kindness and compassion.
3:22
There's a desperate open ocean voyage when they're trying to escape their periods of starvation, of murder, fraught negotiations.
The some of the whalemen are forcibly tattooed, which is a very painful operation.
3:39
And then finally, almost four years after the wreck, the last of the whalemen in Palau are saved by a rescue mission, a naval rescue mission that was sent by President Andrew Jackson.
3:57
So that's just sort of the bare bones of the story.
There's a lot of back and forth.
There's a lot of cross, cross cultural understanding and misunderstanding.
There are beachcombers and wars and sieges and beheadings and at various times there are other shipwrecks that I talk about.
4:20
It's, it's an amazingly, delightfully complicated story, but I think it it's pretty easy to follow.
But just so many different things happened.
And really what's most amazing to me is how many years some of the Americans survive there.
4:37
In the end, only 7 returned the United States out of the original 22.
Like I said, it really is compelling.
It's a page Turner from from 1 chapter to the next.
You're just wondering, you know, what more can these men possibly go through?
4:54
You know, but but we'll we'll talk about some of those things here in just a moment.
Like you were talking about what the being transferred between islands and trying to survive with the with the native people there in Palau.
But going back to the beginning, what is the back story of the Mentor itself, the ship and and how it came to set out on this fateful voyage?
5:20
Well, a mentor was originally built in 18 O 7 by a famous shipbuilder named Enos Briggs.
It was not designed as a whale ship.
It was just a a merchant ship can also engage in fishing.
It wasn't that large, it was 84 feet.
5:36
It it's early life exactly what it did other than trading up and down the coast, there's not much known.
But it was finally transformed into a whale ship and that's not that difficult.
You basically have to put davits off the side or or wood arms that can hold the multiple whale boats, the 20 to 25 foot long boats that the whalemen used to pursue the whale on the open water and then harpoon it.
6:04
You also have to add a Tri works, which is a brick structure in the center of the main deck in which there are iron pots and fires below and that's where you pitch the blubber into and it melts and you render the whale oil which is so valuable as a as an aluminance.
6:23
So the whaling, this is the golden age of whaling when New Bedford leads the world.
There are 700 whale ships that leave New Bedford just in 1831.
The Mentor had been on a couple of other whaling voyages prior to the voyage that I talked about.
6:45
And in fact, the last time that it went out on the short one year whaling voyage, it was captained by Edward Barnard.
And a sign that he was probably a pretty good captain is that a number of the people who were on that earlier voyage signed up for the subsequent voyage, the one that ultimately ended in a wreck.
7:06
So I do talk about the history of whaling at the beginning of the book.
It's the context for what takes place, but since the story really takes off after the shipwreck, there's not a lot of whaling after that.
It's more just fierce determination, survival, misunderstandings and a lot of twists, twists and turns.
7:29
Yeah, that portion of your book, the description of the, you know, the whaling industry and, and all of the equipment and how it was done and how, how the whale oil was used, of course, is, is definitely a big part of, of history of American history, especially in the Northeast.
7:46
You know, like you said, New Bedford, Nantucket and just to name a couple, they set out originally to go in the Atlantic.
But then Barnard makes a decision.
Well, we're not, you know, we didn't get as much oil as he hopes so.
Once they crashed in 11 and then perished within a day's time.
8:05
They had to go to a nearby island, a small K that they saw in the distance.
And that's when they first encountered Palauans.
And this is the northern reaches of Palau.
And the Palauans knew all about guns because there had been shipwrecks before, a British shipwreck.
8:23
So one of the first things they wanted was to retrieve the muskets from the wreck.
So they bidded they, they sort of asked the whalemen and signs and signals to follow them back to the wreck.
The whalemen got back into their whale boat.
They went to the wreck, decided it was a little too dangerous to do anything there, so they started sailing off and and rowing off and they thought they were being taken to an island.
8:48
And then the people from Kayangal started to attack the American whalemen and steal things from the whale boat.
The whalemen fought back and there were Spears launched, coconuts launched, and the only thing that saved the whalemen because of the canoe, the Palauan canoe, of course, was much faster than the whale boat is that Edward Barnard knew that the Palauans were very interested in their clothes and there were a lot of clothes on board.
9:17
So they took individual pieces.
One piece of clothes threw it into the water far away as they could, and then the natives would paddle over to pick up that piece of clothes.
And each time this was done, the whale boat got a little further away.
9:33
And finally the Palauans gave up and they turned about.
And then the Americans had to deal with sailing in the open ocean, not knowing where they're going.
They landed on another island a little further to the South.
They encountered more natives who were initially quite hostile, but did take them back to their village.
9:52
And they're the most amazing thing took place.
There was a beachcomber there, an Englishman who had been washed up in effect on Palau, the the village of Ngarshalon decades before.
And now he was a respected chief or elder of the the tribe.
10:10
And he had married a Palauan woman.
But better for the Americans.
He could speak English still, Andy could speak Palauan.
So he ended up being a translator or interpreter for the Wellman while they were in Ingarshalon.
10:25
And I mean, the story goes on and on.
I don't wanna give away the sure, the whole, but I mean, then the Ingarshalon, he's agreed to help the Americans build a ship that doesn't workout quite that well.
They help them fix the whale boat and they also build a canoe for them to get back to the Spice Islands.
10:45
But there's a deal struck because of British bark that had crashed and Palau decades before, in exchange for building a ship for them to get out of there, the chief of Caror, another village to the South of Mingarshalon, had engaged the British in warfare against other villages.
11:05
And the British also gave the Palauans, the Cora Rees, guns and ammunition.
So now that and one of the villages that they had vanquished back then was in Garshalong.
So now that in Garshalong had these Americans there, and they knew that they had guns, they basically made the Americans promise that when they got back to America, they would send 200 muskets, a similar amount of ammunition, and balls and flints back to Palau.
11:35
And to make sure that the Americans didn't Welch on their deal, they kept behind three American hostages in Ngarshalang.
So there's a voyage.
They leave on the canoe.
The bad things happen.
11:50
They end up on another island, which isn't officially part of Palau, but is today a much smaller, much less a much more primitive, a much more food restricted island South of Ngarshalang.
And they're the Americans.
12:05
And some of the Ngarshalangis who came along to see the wider world are treated much worse.
They're on the edge of starvation.
Some escape, some starve, some are killed.
And finally we have that naval rescue mission.
12:21
So it's always funny when I give a talk on my book, I sort of tell summarize the whole book.
And a lot of people come up to me after my talk and say, you know, you did such a good job of summarizing the book that I don't need to buy it.
But my attitude is it's hard with nonfiction not to tell the story.
12:38
It's not like a fictional story where I can read a chapter and say, oh, what happens to Susie or, or Dan or whatever.
So I, I generally tell the story, but my attitude is if somebody thinks then the span of a 40 minute talk for a 30 minute podcast, they're getting the whole story, then they were never going to read the book anyway.
12:59
So it doesn't matter.
I'm not losing any potential.
I'm not spoiling anything for anybody.
Yeah.
And as an interviewer, I've interviewed a lot of authors, and I always have that in the back of my mind too.
Well, don't give away everything because obviously, you know, they're going to want people to buy the book, and they should.
13:15
And as somebody who has read the book, I can tell you for sure.
I can tell my listeners there is a lot more to this book than we're going to talk about in this episode.
All of the interactions between the whalemen and the the natives of Palau, and they're varying, like you said, varying tribes that they interacted with and they were treated differently by all of them there.
13:41
There's a lot of nuance here, and I think that's what really makes this story so fascinating is the the whalemen themselves became very valuable to these people because of the interactions they have had with Americans, Europeans and, you know, other other cultures that they were exposed to.
14:04
The ships, the weapons, the technology.
They were infatuated with clothing, like you said, which that's just reminded me.
That's William Bligh did the same thing on his legendary voyage in the lifeboat.
Yeah.
He was.
They were being attacked on a little island.
14:19
They had stopped off after the mutiny and they they threw clothing into the water so they would be distracted and they were able to get away.
So.
Yeah.
But anyway, yeah, this whole dynamic of having these whalemen as captives and and and slaves almost to a certain degree, at least on crore, it was really interesting the way that they were treated as a commodity because they knew eventually a ship was going to come and they wanted to get weapons or iron or whatever.
14:50
How were you able to research those events?
Did you have any primary sources or?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
I wouldn't have written the book if I didn't have primary sources.
Fortunately for me is is 2 of the men on board?
The Mentor wrote this story.
15:07
One of them published it during his lifetime when he was in 1836, another one, the Captain Edward Barnard.
His transcript remained hidden until the 1970s, when it was found misfiled and ignored in the bowels of museum archive.
15:23
So I had two direct accounts.
Plus this was a pretty big story at the time.
So a lot of newspapers ran articles, not just newspapers in the United States, but also newspapers in Canton in China, where some of the Americans landed after they left Palau, before they made it back to the United States.
15:41
And there were also accounts written by the captain and the Lieutenant of the ship, the Vincennes, the US warship that was sent to Palau to retrieve last of the Americans.
So there are a lot of primary sources that sort of detail the basic outlines of the story.
15:59
There are also some oral histories in Palau.
There are a lot of academic treatises have been written about Palau and history, and many of them have included chapters about the the mentor.
So I I was able to get at it from a number of different angles and tell the story to my satisfaction.
16:21
You had a little bit of a note in your author's note about using oral history from some of the Palauans and, and that's obviously very difficult.
Any kind of oral history difficult.
Yes.
One thing that you said, I, I thought I really appreciated you explain the challenges that historians face and those that write about history as you sort through all of this evidence and you and you specifically said that you're telling of the story is not the only one possible.
16:51
And and that really struck me as as meaningful.
But what exactly did did you mean by that?
Well, I mean, history is not just pure unadulterated fact.
It depends on people's interpretation of the events.
There's a famous movie called Rashomon by Akira Kurosawa, and the basic theme in the movie is that there's one event and there's seven groups or seven people that see the same event from different angles, and each of them comes up with a different story of exactly what happened.
17:23
I don't think it's as radical as that.
I don't think another historian could look at what happened with the mentor and tell a story that was unrecognizable when compared to mine.
But they might stress certain things more, and I did.
Or less so history.
17:38
And that's why we can have 16,000 books perhaps on George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.
It's because a lot of people are using the same material, but they sort of interpreted it or put it into a slightly different context.
So I was just trying to share some humility.
17:55
You need to have some humility.
When I think you're an historian and understand that you're evaluating human actions.
There are going to be gaps in the information that you might have to fill in by inference or leave out.
And what you decide to leave out or put in has a big impact on how the story comes across.
18:16
But I, I, I'm pretty happy with the, the, the story as I told it.
And I think that it's, it's all, it's very accurate or it's as accurate as it can be reflecting the sources that you're able to use.
And as somebody that, you know, I am not a historian, I wouldn't claim to be, but I write about history and do this podcast, obviously.
18:38
And that's just something that comes up to me as well as when you're trying to interpret some of the evidence or reading through.
You know, I can't tell you how many Captain's log books I've read through that, which are very dry.
But yeah, packed with information.
You know, I take that as a primary source and and, you know, I have to lean on on those quite a bit, right, as compared to, let's say, a newspaper article or something like that.
19:05
But I, I find it really important that we do tell these stories, whether or not we may have all the information or even if we have to rely sometimes on information that we're not sure of.
19:20
We just have to go with what's more likely than not or what seems more plausible than not.
And that's what I was getting at.
I got a little bit sidetracked, but with the oral histories of the allowance, how much of that were you able to sift through and?
19:37
Interpret There are some moral histories, not a lot to go back that farther in many detail.
I also was able to use books, textbooks and history books written put together by Palauans that give their perspective on what transpired.
19:54
So I did, I did the best that I think anybody, anybody would be capable of.
It's the same problem that Americans have when they write histories of the West and the interactions with native tribes and Indians because very few of those tribes have anything you would call a written history.
20:12
They do have a lot of legends.
They have a lot of oral histories and we're getting better at teasing out with some of those oral histories are today, but with.
Plow they're even, you know, they're fewer that we would be familiar with as Americans, but they have a rich and diverse history.
20:31
And this is just one small event in that history.
But I I I used whatever was available.
One of the fascinating things about this story is is overall its significance, not so much in that a whale ship was lost or even some lives were asked, even though those things are significant.
20:52
It was really more of the international aspect to it, of how all of these outsiders to Palau over time ended up being in this situation where it almost became kind of a diplomatic crisis.
What are your thoughts about that?
21:10
Well, when the British bark crashed in 1783, that was really the first sustained interaction between the West and the East, in this case Palauan and England.
And the introduction of guns really changed the nature of the relationship.
21:26
And that was supplemented with there were other visits by British who gave them guns.
And then we have the mentor situation where guns were promised and at this point there were probably 20 to 50,000 Palauans.
But what happened after the mentor was just a speeding up of what had happened before.
21:46
And that was interactions with the West, people taking advantage of Palauans, trading for sea cucumbers, bringing diseases, bringing more guns, and eventually towards the end of the century, Palauans not only reduced in population significantly, there are only about 4000 of them by the end of of the 19th century.
22:10
But beyond that, they also lost control over their own destiny.
First Spain took over Palau, then Germany took over Palau, then Japan took over Palau.
Then after World War 2, the American Navy oversaw the administration of Palau.
22:28
Then the United Nations started the trust territory where the United States oversaw the administration of Palau.
And it wasn't until 1994 that Palau became its own Republican, finally had control once again over its own destiny.
22:44
So the Mentor is sort of part of the long tableau of the the West's impact on Palau and Palauans.
And it was a story that got worse and worse over time.
23:00
Yeah, kind of a microcosm of colonization.
Yes.
During that, during the age of sale and not just Palau, but all over, all over the world, but specifically the Pacific.
Yeah, there's the.
History of stronger countries taking advantage of weaker countries and places and exploiting them for their resources and labor.
23:23
Yeah, it's a very common story.
When you were talking about how guns and technology and those kind of things were being brought to Palau and IT and and the Plowans were exposed to those things, what came to mind was the prime directive of Star Trek and how they're never supposed to interfere with other civilizations.
23:46
Right.
Even though they did it pretty much in every episode.
Yes, yeah, because you never know what the consequences are going.
To be exactly and obviously the consequences here were that they wanted these things, they were fascinated by them and they saw them as especially the guns as ways to exert power over other islands, other tribes, other villages.
24:10
Thinking about the more toward the end of the story of the mentor or their the crew of the mentor.
What complicated things when the when the ships came eventually to try to rescue the the remaining captives?
Right.
The Tobins and plows in general and Pacific Islanders in general, what they would often do is when a western ship came by is they would canoe, you know, row out to the ship.
24:34
They trade food stuffs, water, whatever they had available, but they're always looking for iron and trinkets and mirrors and sort of anything that was Western, but especially iron, which they could fashion into tools and weapons.
24:51
And something that wasn't, was totally new to them and very, very powerful and sort of not just as a as a treasure, but as something to use in their culture.
So what happened when the men of the Mentor escaped in two different ships?
25:08
Is that the amount of iron that the ship gave in return for the hostages was in one point deemed woefully inadequate, and as a result, the Tobiens took it out on the remaining whalemen and in Garshalanis.
25:27
And this is sort of a part of a broader story where a lot of American ships and Western ships would trade in the Pacific Ocean, and sometimes they wouldn't trade fairly.
So when that ship left, when the next ship came by, the natives who had been burned by the prior ship would give that next ship a poor reception.
25:49
So that kind of cycle occurred a lot.
Yeah.
And unfortunately like you said it, they took that out on the the remaining captives they had there, right.
One thing that I've really enjoyed too, I say humbly, were the pictures in your book or the drawing illustrations and things like that?
26:08
Yeah, that really added some really good context.
I'm sure that most Americans who read this book will have very little information or knowledge of plow.
And I've always loved images because they they literally help you tell the story.
26:24
I'm just very very visually oriented and I find that the images are a way to help bring the story alive.
Yeah, especially for me, I wanted to know where these villages were and what islands there, where they were in, in the broader area of the Pacific, but also just within Palau itself.
26:43
So I was looking up maps and everything and looking at the the the images and and illustrations in the book.
Really enjoyed it.
There's so much, there's so many bigger themes here.
Obviously the shipwreck, it was AI don't think we even mentioned it.
The method of the shipwreck was a storm.
26:59
A storm destroyed the ship, they wrecked on a reef, and that's really where things went from bad to worse, as we talked about.
Yeah, just imagine being out in the open ocean and suddenly your only means of transport minus, you know, small whale boat is is gone.
27:18
You have no idea where you are at the moment.
They found out later they were in Palau.
You have no idea what kind of reception you're going to get.
You're far off the the regular shipping lanes, so it's probably infrequent or unlikely for another ship to come by and potentially rescue you, and you have no way of communicating with anybody back home.
27:39
I just it's hard to imagine what it must have felt like to be involved in a shipwreck during the age of sail halfway around the world.
Just amazing.
Yeah, it is hard to imagine especially these days in our, we're very comfortable in comparison, so to say the least.
27:58
I mean, that's an.
Understanding, yeah, being a podcaster and a writer is much easier than being a whale man.
Whale Man was right up there with one of the riskier jobs, to be sure.
Similar to the story of the Essex in a way, without all the being held captive by, without the cannibalism.
28:19
But also they weren't held captive by the by any Islanders or anything but, but you've, you've written quite a few other maritime history books.
Care to mention many of those?
Sure.
I've written 17 books, some of the other maritime ones that are particularly popular.
28:37
Black flags, Blue waters, The epic history of America's most notorious pirates.
I wrote a book called The Furious Sky and the History of America's Hurricanes.
I wrote a book called Leviathan, A history of whaling in America.
28:53
I wrote a book about the China trade.
I wrote a book about rebels at sea privateering during the American Revolution.
I wrote a book called Left 4 Dead, about 5 men who were intentionally marooned on the Falkland Islands during the War of 1812.
29:10
So yeah, there's a bit of a theme going here.
I love the ocean.
I live near the ocean.
I live in Marblehead, MA and I've always loved Salty tales, shipwrecks, or or commerce on the open ocean.
So yeah, it's been, it's been a long, strange trip.
29:30
That sounds great.
I'm going to have to get some more of those.
Some of those you mentioned, those sound really interesting.
That's that's right up my alley, obviously.
Yeah, thanks.
So at the time of that we're recording right now, the wreck of the Mentor is not published yet, but it will be by the time that this airs, Yeah.
29:49
Where can everyone find and purchase the rec of the Mentor?
Any place books are sold.
I mean, it's already available for pre-order on, you know, at physical bookstores, indie bookstores, online, any online retailers.
And certainly once the book publishes, you're going to hopefully hear a lot about it and you'll certainly be able to find it in any major bookstore.
30:15
And if a bookstore doesn't have it, if your local independent bookstore doesn't have it, it's very easy to order a copy for you if that's what you like.
Or you can order it online at one of the companies that will mail it directly to your your mailbox.
30:32
So getting, getting a copy will not be a problem.
And I hope that many of your listeners decide to get a copy.
And also I would be remiss if I didn't mention my website, which is just my name www.thatsnotmynamebut.eric J Dolan, ERICJAYD olin.com.
30:54
And the reason I mention it is not only can you find buttons for ordering from various locations, but also I have the entire introduction of the book on my website.
So you can read the introduction to The Wreck of the Mentor or my other books and decide if it sounds interesting.
31:13
Well, the book is The Wreck of the Mentor, a true story of death, despair, and deliverance in the Age of Sail by Eric J Dolan and can't say thank you enough for being here with me and taking your time to talk to me about such a significant shipwreck in in our history.
31:29
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
Thanks for having me.
Shipwrecks and Sea Dogs is written, edited and produced by me, Rich Napolitano.
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31:46
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32:03
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